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JMBarrie / Re: JM Barrie’s will
« Last post by mb0521 on September 22, 2019, 07:52:12 AM »
I know this is the Barrie section, but did Michael leave a will? Being so young I suppose not.
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Davies Family / Re: George and Mrs Anthony Hope ...
« Last post by mb0521 on September 22, 2019, 07:45:07 AM »
Knowing how Barrie certainly would not have wanted a scandal (e.g. his divorce being one example) wouldn’t the possibility of all these sexual dalliances have deterred Barrie from arranging these ‘meetings’ for Jack and George. Surely, he didn’t want a scandal for them too.
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JMBarrie / The Cause of Barrie's Impotence
« Last post by TheWanderer247 on September 20, 2019, 07:19:55 PM »
There's been several articles over the years with different theories as to the cause of Barrie being impotent. The most recent is what was known as Psychosocial Dwarfism, where long term malnutrition & neglect will make an otherwise potentially normal person into an individual who never fully developed physically to their full potential.

I do know it's noted from his friends that the reason Barrie was so thin and short was because of him not eating enough as a child, but considering Barrie's mother was apparently a small woman herself I'm not so sure I can say that his stature & impotence could have been caused by neglect & malnutrition, as he was genetically predisposed to be short anyways.

I do know that certain diseases can cause impotence, such as the mumps and scarlet fever. I knew of a woman who couldn't have children because of the latter, so had to adopt children. Was it ever noted that Barrie suffered from these once common ailments? I know his life from birth to the age of six is basically an unknown era of his life's history, but maybe he could have had it and that's what caused the impotence?

I wonder, though, if it wasn't psychological too. Then again, if he was damaged early on in childhood physically he never would have mentally or emotionally ever had the want or need for it. It just wouldn't have factored into the equation psychologically, cus the hormones wouldn't have been involved.

Maybe someone more "in the know" can answer the question, or has a better idea of what happened to him.
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JMBarrie / Re: J.M. Barrie, Religious Beliefs?
« Last post by TheWanderer247 on September 20, 2019, 06:53:32 PM »
Thanks for the reply. I'm reminded of someone like Twain, who so many secularists claim as their own. A man who questioned & doubted & critiqued, but regardless had strong ties to the Christian denomination he grew up with until the day he died. It's not for anyone to say whether someone is saved or lost, because only they & Jesus Christ Almighty God knows where they stood. Barrie strikes me as a man who probably shrugged off the totalitarian aspects of religion, all the while pursuing answers to unsettled questions in his heart & mind.

I read somewhere that he liked Nietzsche, and it makes me wonder on some level whether G.K. Chesterton didn't write numerous essays about the irrationality of nihilism & Nietzsche himself, because of his friend Barrie's interest in the man.

I read an article sometime ago on the STAND TO REASON website entitled, "Sympathy For Hook," and it was a rather Christian perspective on Peter Pan, and whether consciously or unconsciously Barrie basically created something of a conversion story, much like Ebenezer Scrooge's own; that Hook had to die, in order for Mr. Darling to be the father he always should have been. That it's no coincidence in the play's history that the actor who portrays Darling is also the same actor who portrays Hook. The old man must die in order to be born again, is clearly a Christian theme, whether Barrie intended it to be that or not.

Again, many thanks for the reply!
Jesus bless you and your family
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Davies Family / Re: George and Mrs Anthony Hope ...
« Last post by Andrew on September 20, 2019, 08:46:21 AM »
Peter puts it better than I could in his Morgue:

"George (aged 19) was much intrigued by Betty Hawkins, and I think this was his first [...] experience of the delights of a flirtation with an attractive femme du monde. I also doubt whether Betty Hawkins ever had a more attractive adolescent to play around with. They enjoyed themselves quite a lot, sheltering from the eternal rain in the fishing-huts by the side of those lonely romantic lochs. She was very easy on the eye, and American, which perhaps accounts for the circumstance, rare enough in those far off days, that occasional nips of whisky fed the flames of dalliance. On these occasions George forcibly taught me the elements of tact, i.e. the necessity of making myself scarce, and I envied from afar, being just at the stage when poor J.M.B. had had to give me, by the banks of the burn, a small talking to for indulging at Eton in what my tutor euphemistically termed water-closet talk. He very nearly penetrated my juvenile defences by telling me it had always been his view that a man without some element of coarseness in his nature was not a whole man, which must have disconcerted me, coming from him. But I don't think he knew what was afoot between George and Betty: not that it amounted to anything."

Peter later speculated that Barrie might have even set George up with the French music-hall phenomenon, Gaby Deslys (check her out on Wikipedia) as a farewell present before George set off for the Western Front:

"Did George, during those last few hours of freedom, have anything more than just a mild flirtation with Gaby? I like to think so. Both were charmers, and it would have been a good finale. It is my belief that J.M.B., though so insulated himself (in a sense) from the flesh and the Devil, had the perception and imagination and tolerance and sense of the fitness of things to smile on such a little piece of naughtiness, in the circumstances and even pave the way for it. I have no evidence one way or the other, [...] but I will leave the theory in, because I think it a charming one, which George would have appreciated. And you never know. J.M.B. had his moments of profound insight and wisdom as well as his practically limitless generosity. And he loved George with an exceeding great love.

Re George and Betty Hawkins, Nico wrote to me:

"George and Betty Hope/Hawkins at Amhuinnsuidh: Yes indeed! I'm sure she also took Jack to bed with her, though not at Amhuinnsuidh as he wasn't there. But she was clearly captivated by these two virile and very attractive young men who doubtless could produce a thing or two that "Oh for an hour of Herod!" Anthony Hope had allowed to decrease in Ruritania."

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JMBarrie / Re: J.M. Barrie, Religious Beliefs?
« Last post by Andrew on September 20, 2019, 07:35:55 AM »
I asked Nico who couldn't remember JMB ever going to church, nor did he ever discuss it with him (although Nico himself was quietly religious in that he went to the local C of E church on Sundays). But he thought Mackail had it about right, remembering that Mackail knew both Barrie and the Llewelyn Davieses well, so here's what Mackail has to say (p 56):

"As with scores of other young Scotchmen if not with all of them, his family’s form of religion had been driven in so far and so firmly that questioning and experiment were equally impossible. Church-going was as inevitable as Sunday itself. Other denominations were, quite simply, for those who had been brought up in them. More imprisonment? His soul hadn’t noticed it yet, or rather, perhaps, had accepted obedience to what was expected of it without positively involving his mind.

His church-going broke off and ceased when he left Scotland—though it was resumed, as long as his mother was alive, at his old home—as naturally and easily as if it had never been driven into him at all. He never mocked; the moral principles which it formalised or ritualised were an unshakable part of him until the end. But, put to the test, the perpetuation of childish beliefs—which bring peace, comfort, and self-satisfaction to so many—could no longer accompany the queer development of his intellect. In this, at any rate, he grew up, or—if you prefer it—remained always too young for spiritual understanding. During all the best-known part of his life he varied, one might say, between stoic philosophy and brief but natural and human moments of secret panic and terror. His mind wasn’t a religious mind, though his pen and that largely subconscious part of him which so often guided it could touch notes of deep religious sincerity."

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JMBarrie / J.M. Barrie, Religious Beliefs?
« Last post by TheWanderer247 on September 19, 2019, 08:18:41 PM »
I'm aware of his upbringing where his family initially hoped he would become a preacher, and his earlier works tended to be Christian in nature, however it seems its an "unknown" answer these days as to what he believed as he got older.

I find it immensely intriguing because he was great friends with the likes of Wells & Shaw who fit into either the agnostic or atheist camp, but was also friends with Chesterton the foremost Christian defender of the faith in that time period. With all these great minds debating the big questions of the day, as well as the great questions of philosophy, it's quite odd that there seems to be "radio silence" from Barrie himself.

I was curious if Mr. Birkin, or others "in the know", have the faintest idea as to Barrie's worldview actually was. Was he a Christian? Was he agnostic? Was he atheist? Was he a deist?
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JMBarrie / Re: JM Barrie’s will
« Last post by Brutus on September 19, 2019, 10:15:30 AM »
According to the probate entry, JMB left an estate valued at £173,467 9s. 5d. A tidy sum for the times.
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Davies Family / Re: George and Mrs Anthony Hope ...
« Last post by mb0521 on September 19, 2019, 09:46:34 AM »
Good for him! If anything did happen do you think Barrie would have known and if so how would he have reacted?
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Davies Family / Peter's notes on Michael
« Last post by Andrew on September 16, 2019, 12:11:02 PM »
I've just added Peter's notes on Michael to the database, which Peter must have made prior to embarking on "Some Davies Letters and Papers" (aka The Morgue) in 1946. If anyone can read the (to me) illegible words, please let us know. Here's my transcription:

M[ichael]. Cleverest. Misery at Eton. Pop XI Field. Scholarship [decreased?]. Influence of JMB over him and vice versa. Strong likeness early photographs of Father. Spoilt - came out all right. Oxford. Poems. Better than much in the anthologies. Boothby stayed with him one night a fortnight before his death. No sign of melancholy. Deep sense of family loss. Hugh Macnaghten - He's all right now. (Shades of Uncle Harry). Friendship with [admirable? adorable??] Rupert Buxton. Death at {left blank}. Body in morgue. Cause unknown. R. a better swimmer than M. hence theory of R. trying to save him. Quite unproved. Some belief in suicide. Perfectly possible but entirely unproven. Last [point?] blow to J.M.B.; never so close to any of the 3 survivors as to the dead ones. [Step?] [mother?] story [supervenes?]. La vie est vaine. [Life is futile]
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