Michael Jackson RIP

[andrew]

I've read several times that Michael Jackson gave Peter Pan "a bad name". I disagree. When in 1982 I was asked by The Observer to give my opinion on the rumoured casting of M J as P P in Spielberg's proposed film, I said I thought Barrie would be "turning in his grave... with exhiliration". Of course this was not what the reporter wanted to hear - at the time most P P purists considered such an idea to be sacrilege - but I meant it, although I doubt Spielberg would have had the vision to pull it off (not if the execrable Hook was anything to go by). It seemed to me that M J, in those days, possessed that elusive quality Tyrone Guthrie felt essential in any actor playing Peter: to be at once "as delicate as a moth, as deadly as a bomb". And boy, did he know how to fly! Whether he could have pulled it off we'll never know, but it would have been a brave try; and I sure hope he's now having more fun in the real Neverland than he ever had in that ersatz pile he built to house himself in this life.  RIP
     

[Hannah High]

Been gone all day but was hoping to type something to MJ here. The wise words that Mr. Birkin said did an awesome message of RIP far better than I ever could, not to mention breathes a rare breath of fresh air about the Peter Pan connection. And I couldn't agree more...that would have been awesome to see him try the boy who never grew up years ago (though not in any of the versions produced then - or since then even!).

Saw the news yesterday with some people who were talking on and on of all that blah, blah bullshit about Jackson we usually hear, my mum and I both scoffed at the same time for them to shut the F*** for at least one second. But like 96% of the world, they didn't. After which, we both moved away and were quite for awhile until it made my mum sad and she started talking about the half n half. "Don't know 1/4 of the things that really happened! But poor boy, poor man. Michael was so different from Barrie," she said. "Such different kinds of lives and suffering, but he wanted to connect to him." I replied, "now he's met an awfully big adventure."

As for you, Michael, I never really checked out your music, listened to news or ever debated on you, cared for that ranch, nor even knew much about you, but I can't deny that I too was blown away by your frailty and power as you went about your music. There was so much crap in experiencing other people and fame -such is life. Because of all that, you were really a child. So glad you're free and flying now. BTW, my little brother still dances as the wild lost boy that he is to that orca song by you, which I gave him when he was small. We'll both join you and many others in flights through Neverland one day too. Sweet dreams of waking...

[sunset]

It was actually because of Michael Jackson I became interested in J.M Barrie...
I don't think either, that MJ gave P.P a bad name.
May you R.I.P Michael Jackson. Peace you never realy were allowed to have here.
Thank you for your beautiful insights, music, dedication, and love for the world, despite what it has thrown at you.

[smiles]

MJ was a great singer and dancer, but I think there's all together too much hyperbole being thrown around.
Just because someone is a talented entertainer it does not make them a great person. It reminds me of when Princess Diana died and every bleeding heart had to be seen to suffer on t.v. giving their condolences. The same week Mother Theresa of Calcutta died, a woman that devoted her whole life to live in poverty and look after the sick and dying, she got 2 % of the air time that Diana got.

If Michael Jackson had worked tirelessly for world peace, used his VAST fortune to do good then, perhaps, he would have been worthy of the worship he's been receiving in the media.

Please understand that I'm not knocking the forum users, but I do think it's a weakness of society in general that we credit greatness, and often goodness, to fame, often when it is undeserved.

Isn't there a saying that a beggar who gives half of his lunch to a needy person is far more than the millionaire who gives a thousand pounds. Well it's something like that, never have been very good at remembering quotes.

[Hannah High]

On this website, MJ was brought up because of the JM Barrie connection. I'm sure people on the forum think about many things as well as that throughout the days and nights.

[sunset]

Hello smiles,

Michael Jackson not only gave millions to good causes, he too personally reached out to people who needed help, in any way he could. If you would have taken the time to learn about the person, you would not have said such thing, sorry to say...

Yes his death is widely reported, but then again, sadly, wasn't every step he made reported as if world peace had been declared?
Whatever Michael Jackson did or didn't do, he was news the moment he stepped out of his door.

[andrew]

Hannah has already said as much, but I would reiterate that I brought up M J in the context of Peter Pan, and whether or not he might have made a remarkable P P had Spielberg used him back in 1982. It had nothing to do with Fame, Diana, Good Causes, Mother Teresa or anything else... not that you aren't entirely welcome to post your views - nor do I necessarily disagree with them - but it's another topic, and rather off the P P track.

[Hannah High]

true, true, and I deleated my own ramblings. As Andrew said, they have nothing to do with Peter Pan, and weren't really a response to the original topic...

Speaking of which, as for the casting of Peter Pan (that is, if one were to use an adult as Speilberg did), I would have definately given a chance to MJ - he's got the movement, which I've never seen really done in any version. I wonder if he could have pulled off the boy in carelessness as well as emotion though? Mia Farrow had that devil in her, I thought so anyway. MJ seemed very shy in his personality...I'm certain he could do Pan's cries in the nightmares as well as his pain in coming into Wendy's nursery or memory of his mother in a soft and unique way. I'm not referring to his controversial life, but as a performer, could he play a murderer, having a love affair... someone that you can't really say is the devil or hero? If his pitch in heartlessness and innocence can vary as much as his dancing, than certainly! I really haven't seen him in anything on screen, so others will have to elaborate on that, or maybe one day I'll spend some time and watch his stuff on youtube. One thing is for certain, I'd be more interested in watching him than Robin Williams, who didn't remind me of Peter at all! But then I don't think MJ could play such a character as the "Pan" that was designed in Hook's not-anything-like-Barrie storyline (as Andrew already pointed out).

I know Barrie wouldn't have liked Hook, but I wonder what he would have said of MJ, or who we would have picked if not Michael. Jumping back to another decade and time in film, didn't JM Barrie once want Charlie Chaplin to play Peter? I remember that from somwhere, but correct me if I'm wrong. Hmm...well, he certainly had the atheletic ability, and emotional/physical affection, and I'm sure I'd fall off my seat laughing to see his humour in killing pirates, but I don't know if I can quite see him as Peter, not exactly a child, nor is he devlish. Charlie was bold in his politics and techniques, but with danger and death, he seems too safe for Peter in flickers. But I'm a poor judge for film, and maybe I'm just thinking of films in those days, and too much of the Little Tramp now! Barrie must have known what he was talking about. 

Ah, would've been nice if we all could see the original Pan performance. I've heard nice descriptions, of course, but I wonder what she was like...

[smiles]

Apologies for the earlier post if anyone took offence, it was a bit of a selfish rant.

[tcarroll]

I feel that in many ways, Mr. Barrie and MJ both lost their childhood.  Barrie lost part of his because of the death of his brother, the trauma of it all, and the way his mother reacted to it.  MJ's childhood was just sad.  A meal ticket from the time he was a very small boy.  Both of them have their own version of Neverland..and I pray both are a peace.  The only way we will ever have peace again is if we can be children again. I respect both of these men.

[smiles]

Hmmmm. I just can't see Chaplin as Pan, surely he represents one side of the coin but seemed to be devoid of the devilish half (at least on screen).

Saying that it's amazing how some actors seem to turn themselves into something special for certain roles.

[TheWendybird]

I feel that in many ways, Mr. Barrie and MJ both lost their childhood.  Barrie lost part of his because of the death of his brother, the trauma of it all, and the way his mother reacted to it.  MJ's childhood was just sad.  A meal ticket from the time he was a very small boy.  Both of them have their own version of Neverland..and I pray both are a peace.  The only way we will ever have peace again is if we can be children again. I respect both of these men.

I agree with this..not finding peace unless we are children again but I must say...since me and my boyfriend found each other.....it's lightened the load the world puts on us to a HUGE extent. We strangely enough I suppose...both had our childhoods but....we are still not content...we still don't want to grow up and refuse to. Both Barrie and Jackson have been big figures in our lives. This stuff about Charlie Chaplin is interesting..it seems I've always been drawn to this type of person as I got into Charlie Chaplin around age 7. It's very strange because I'm beginning to see a connection with some of these people. Barrie starts it off....Jackson wants to live it....Jackson ...also loved Charlie Chaplin....when I was little I was ...well...like the book says of Wendy...somehow from my toddler years on I knew I didn't want to grow up and that it felt like the beginning of the end..I dunno how I felt this but I did and I related to that line far too much in the book. And now as I learn more about these people it makes sense why they've always appealed to me....and then imagine my suprise when I found out Jackson loved Chaplin as well.

Barrie will never die ...he lives on in all of us...when we don't conform or let go of our childhoods...When Jackson died..i felt and still do feel like I lost a family member....I wanted to befriend him...so did my boyfriend....not for his fame ...but for what he lived...who he was...we were going to write him a letter when we finally had a permanent address and now sadly this will never happen. The day after Michael died....we were heading to DisneyWorld with my boyfriends parents..and everything felt so weird ....there has been a very weird ambience since he passed...we're not sure what to make of it really.

[Holly G.]

I've read several times that Michael Jackson gave Peter Pan "a bad name". I disagree. When in 1982 I was asked by The Observer to give my opinion on the rumoured casting of M J as P P in Spielberg's proposed film, I said I thought Barrie would be "turning in his grave... with exhiliration". Of course this was not what the reporter wanted to hear - at the time most P P purists considered such an idea to be sacrilege - but I meant it, although I doubt Spielberg would have had the vision to pull it off (not if the execrable Hook was anything to go by). It seemed to me that M J, in those days, possessed that elusive quality Tyrone Guthrie felt essential in any actor playing Peter: to be at once "as delicate as a moth, as deadly as a bomb". And boy, did he know how to fly! Whether he could have pulled it off we'll never know, but it would have been a brave try; and I sure hope he's now having more fun in the real Neverland than he ever had in that ersatz pile he built to house himself in this life.  RIP
     

God!!!!
I wish I could have written these words.
Exactly what I think.
 

[CoriSCapnSkip]

Bless you people!  This is such a wonderful discussion compared to so many, and points to a truly thoughtful and tolerant group.  I agree, Michael as a young man would have been a great choice for Peter Pan.  Barrie left this open by providing little if any description of Peter, (heck, he was usually played by a girl!) and Michael had the movement and CERTAINLY the ability to pull it off.  If you watch his music or other videos, heck yes he could stab somebody and come out looking cute.   

It seems Michael later had a falling-out with Spielberg, who has been known to promise projects with people and then go off and do something else, though one of Michael's favorite movies was E. T.

For those wishing to check out his music, this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5zNtK-N5vw is a great place to start.  For such an early song, it is so prophetic of what he represented and tried to become and there is a really Peter Pan quality to it.  I am requesting this to be played at my funeral, seriously.

Agreed, he was no money manager and his fortune would have gone to good use in other ways, though at least he did spend more time and money than most people get to on helping others.  It would have been really nice if he could have left something to perpetuate the Barrie legacy.  Perhaps people looking to make donations in his memory would consider this.

Has anyone thought of writing a detailed book on the similarities and differences in Jackson's and Barrie's Neverlands?

[Taylor]

Whoa Andrew.  I am sure I will be disliked for speaking up, but Michael Jackson cetainly tarniished Perter Pan and Neverland.  I will agree he fought growing up and had Captain Hook as a father.  Taking my view from the inner circle, Michael was NEVER seriously considered for the role of Peter Pan.  The 2 cases brought against Michael on child molestation still cast a questionable light on him, the extreme behaviour, sleeping with young boys, the drugs, the decline of Neverland Ranch.  Michael was more like the film The Lost Boys than Peter Pan. 

One can only hope that in time his connection with Peter Pan will be forgotten.