JMBarrie => JMBarrie => Topic started by: Sylvia8 on November 16, 2020, 04:14:12 PM

Title: J. M. Barrie's MBTI personality
Post by: Sylvia8 on November 16, 2020, 04:14:12 PM
Hi everyone,

I've recently learned more about the 16 personalities of the Myers Briggs' test and I was asking myself what the 4 letters of J. M. Barrie could have been. I'm pretty sure he was an introvert. I think he was more in the intuition than in the facts, realism, although he once said "I thought I was a realist",  I think and more in the emotions than in the thinking. I don't know if he planned things ahead too muchn I don't think so. If he did, it's in the judgment box (he had to judge things before doing them), if not in the perception one. It would make him an INFP. I'm INFJ and I think he could have been an INFP and some things Barrie said in the documentary make me think of me like "If I can help...". I'm always trying to help others before myself, to do good for them. He said he was in contradiction too and it's common with the xNFx's. I know he's not alive anymore to take the test himself and if he would have taken it and would have shared it (private) but if you have an opinion, I would be glad to hear it.

I think Sylvia was more of an extrovert type. Maybe the Amuser personality? I don't know... We don't have much information about her... Do you have some that could help Mister Birkin?

Thank you a lot in advance,

Title: "Dear Brutus" is that if we were given a second chance, we'd probablity make the
Post by: andrew on November 18, 2020, 11:53:38 AM
Inscribed above the Temple to Apollo at Delphi: "Know thyself" ...

A fascinating subject, and although it would appear to be well-nigh impossible, I believe that 50% of the answer lies in our genes, and the other 50% amounts to the degree time/circumstance have switched on (or off) those genes. Furthermore I would go out on a limb and suggest that our personality genes amount to no more than 12 in total, and are either dominant or recessive in each of us, eg extrovert/introvert is one gene, with which we're born either dominant or recessive. Leadership/follower would be another, curiosity/disinterest might be another ... I have about as much proof for any of this as Trump has for winning the election, and as Einstein warned, "Simplify, but don't over simplify" ...

As for Barrie, a fascinating question, but as hard to answer as it is to truly know oneself.  Introvert?  Well yes, on occasion, but according to Nico he could often set the table on a roar, depending on his mood. Although initially nervous (on delivering "Courage") he quickly evolved into a confident public speaker. Does that in some sense make him a closet extrovert?  Are you an introvert?  Am I?  I've often labelled myself as an anti-social socialist = caring about people in the abstract but being bored silly by pleasant chit-chat ...

As you say, I think Barrie was more intuitive than a realist, though don't forget that the moral of "Dear Brutus" is that even if we were given a second chance, we'd all probably make the same mistakes again...

(btw, I did that test = apparently I'm INFP-A/INFP-T - sounds like a type of tropical disease
Title: Re: J. M. Barrie's personality
Post by: Sylvia8 on November 18, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
Thank you very much for your answer  :D

I'm not so sure he was an introvert anymore, indeed. I did some research and now I think he maybe was an extrovert cause he played cricket, he was shy but wanted to seduce the ladies, he was an excentric. I would say his last letter could be P cause my J (the fact that I must plan and control everything is what keeps me on the ground, what makes me unable to fly away when I want it, just on the thought of it).

You made me laugh with the tropical disease :D
Title: Re: J. M. Barrie's personality
Post by: andrew on November 18, 2020, 12:52:05 PM
Not sure what the Ps and Js mean, but maybe with respect to Barrie's in/ex-trovertness, it all depended on the space/time in which he found himself. I wouldn't say he was a controller, although he kept a tight rein when it came to rehearsals. I always claim to be the least controlling person I know, but when it comes to making a film I care about, I want dictatorial control in terms of camera set-ups, editing etc. Yet half the pleasure (to me) of filming - or horse-riding or skiing - is the element of chance, of being slightly out of control. As Jean-Luc Godard once advised, "If somone knocks over a lamp, before everyone rushes to pick it up, check that the movie God hasn't given you a better lighting set-up..." 

To bring this back to Barrie, he claimed that before he ever set pen to paper on a new novel/play, "the taking of a myriad of notes first has always been my way", and indeed his own 46 notebooks bear this out. However, in his introduction to "Sentimental Tommy" (one of my favourites), he wrote that "This is not in the smallest degree the book I meant it to be. Tommy ran away with the author..."
Title: Re: J. M. Barrie's personality
Post by: Sylvia8 on November 18, 2020, 01:00:52 PM
Yes it's true. It's difficult to say if it's in someone's 1st nature (function) to be a certain way or not. We will never know. He could be another type too like the Adventurer for example. I think he liked realism sometimes too like the latin names of the birds (so maybe he thought it was his dominant trait when it was actually not) so I don't know but I like guessing.

For the introversion vs extroversion, it is said that it is not necessarily if you're shy or like to stay home but how you reload your battery, if you take your energy from being alone or in a small group then you're likely to be an introvert as a 1st trait. I think we all have a dominant trait but we can be both like you say so it's difficult to say which one is in someone's first nature or second one.

P is for perception, it's how someone perceive things before or when doing them. J is for judgment so for example, I must judge things before doing them, I must plan them, analyse them, make lists,...
Title: Re: J. M. Barrie's personality
Post by: Sylvia8 on November 21, 2020, 08:21:34 AM

I did some more research (I watched videos of an INFJ guy like me) and found out the letters are connected and have an impact on each other so in fact when you are introvert, it means you are focussed on introspection and you have introverted intuition (IN) as a 1st fonction and introverted is always your dominant trait. I have extraverted sensing (Se) and the fact that I have a J at the end will make my introverted intuition different than the ones who have a P at the end for example.

I took the test as if I were Barrie and he didn't give a damn about reputation (typical xNFP) (I think for his divorce that he just didn't want to be alone). I also noticed when doing the test that P's are very capable of being perfectionnists and go to rehearsals for example but in day to day life, they are more open than me. There was a question about possibilites and as a J's I can choose between 3 possibilities when P's will think outside the box and be more spontaneous, adventurous. The result was ENFP. If you look at the description of the Campaigner, it's him, right down to the mischief with his friend at Dumfries :D (Attention that this test only gives the brain main functions, not the behaviour).

This morning, in bed, I understood that I was Captain Hook. I will explain: All people with NF in them are the diplomats: INFJ, INFP, ENFJ, ENFP (Welcome to the club by the way, Mister Birkin :D). We are believers. We believe in a cause. I as an INFJ believe in good and bad and want to make the Earth a better, an ideal place (my feet are on this ground). Gandhi but also Osama bin Laden were INFJ's. It's Jesus vs Hitler. INFP's believe in a cause and are very imaginative and love to write and create. For example, it's Mulder on The X-Files (my favourite TV series). Mulder believes in extraterrestrials (it's an extreme of course) and will do anyhting to pursue his cause. ENFP's are my opposite cause they believe in an ideal world but outside of Earth: that is Neverland! Barrie's brain functions were my opposites which means sometimes he wanted to have his feet on the ground and deal about Earth's issues but it wasn't him.

Hook wants so badly to escape reality and be Peter Pan but Peter Pan knows Hook can never be like him. Hook will never be able to fly. He enjoys Neverland but not at his fullest. He asks Peter but he replies "no" so it irritates Hook, which leads to fights. Hook wants to go back to Earth but he can't. Peter won't let him. Peter loves Hook and doesn't want him to go and Hook loves Peter too but they are different.

Peter could still be an ESFP (The Amuser type in the Adventurers' category) though but it makes a little less sense to me cause the direct contrary of it is the ISTP: the Adventurer who is clever and uses weapons he builds like MacGyver). And an adult is more viewed like an ISTJ in a child's mind and Peter Pan his all the contrary so ENFP to me. Internet says ESTJ for Hook. Could be but there is so much more than his leadership and planning to him in my opinion (for an ESTJ too, they are not just that but I want to say that they saw it in him so they say ESTJ for that but I think they forget that Hook is Peter's counter part).
Title: Re: J. M. Barrie's personality
Post by: Sylvia8 on December 12, 2020, 12:10:04 PM
I did some more research for Barrie's respect about introversion and extraversion and I found out that ENFPs are the most introverted extroverts and INFJs are the most extroverted introverts. I can sometimes look extroverted though I'm not. ENFPs often have mood swings because they feel good during a social event then someone says something and they feel attacked so they think a lot and don't talk anymore.

ENFPs and INFJs have the same functions: intuition, feeling, thinking then sensing but they mirror each other because they are introverted first for INFJs: introverted intuition, extroverted feeling, introverted thinking, extroverted sensing and extroverted first for the ENFPs: extroverted intuition, introverted feeling, extroverted thinking, introverted sensing. That's why we get on well.
Title: Re: J. M. Barrie's MBTI personality
Post by: Sylvia8 on January 21, 2021, 03:22:22 PM
The more I learn about it, the more I see J.M.B. was not interested in children but in their minds.

In Peter & Wendy, he says that Neverland is children's minds and I even see the mirror map in it with religion and murders and hangings and magical rewards (when you lose a tooth) all that is good vs bad,... cause they are my conscious "personality" which is his uncounscious one.

He loved George and Michael more because their mind was close to his. Sometimes, you're attracted to your contrary too but he didn't get along very well with Jack (ISTJ) cause when we mean our contrary, we mean our uncouscious brain functions so our second "personality" and that's not Jack's case...

Children learn their first function between age 0 and 7 then the 2nd one til 12 and so forth so "We too have been there but we shall land no more" as he says cause we can't go back to only having one function or 2 and their mirror ones (and super ego and subconscious ones).

I think that's all it is. People search too far for things that don't exist in his relationship with the Llewelyn Davies boys. And again, he wrote it very clearly on his pages, no more explanation needed. I know he knew about it cause he says it's really confusing and he doesn't know if it's part of the same map or not.

I would like to know who had the idea to create water, garden, sun,... faeries please. Is it Disney or is it Barrie? Cause it's Carl Jung's work... It's brain functions on how we view/perceive/imagine/... the world, it's MBTI: created by 2 women: Myers and Briggs during WW2 to know which job was best suited for women using Carl Jung's brain functions... It's what the faeries do... It's what the hat in Harry Potter does by reading the children's minds to see in which Hogwarts house they belong... (J.K. Rowling said herself that she is INFJ by the way. Psychology is our field). I hope I don't take away the magical view Barrie had by saying this but I still think psychology is magic and that Barrie knew is uncounscious so knew it too.