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Messages - SingsWithRavens

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31
Peter Pan / Re: "Floreat Etona!" and "Bad form!"
« on: September 11, 2010, 12:47:59 AM »
Ah. I've heard it mentioned that he had somewhere around 5 different versions of the play between "Anon" and the 1928 release. T'would be terribly interesting to see the differences between the versions.
Yep...Jas. was a Pop :D Part of the Eton Society, which is to be expected from the man. It is interesting, though, how the character changes as a result of the quote change. In saying "Bad form", Hook appears more jeering and his elegant side diminishes. In saying "Floreat Etona", however, Hook takes on a more accepting air, and we further understand his elegant nature.
I'm sure the boys' attendance at Eton had an effect on Barrie's change. Perhaps, in having "inside information", as it were, he decided to elaborate (even if just a little) on his character.
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Peter Pan / Re: Peter Pan images
« on: September 08, 2010, 04:34:46 PM »
I've been a member of DeviantART for quite some time and have found quite a few (fantastic) takes on the story.
Just out of curiosity, would anyone like me to post links to a few of the art pieces here?
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Peter Pan / "Floreat Etona!" and "Bad form!"
« on: September 08, 2010, 04:30:41 PM »
I've been wondering this for quite some time, but there seems to be very little information on the topic.
I own Barrie's novel and have read the play online, both released by Project Gutenberg. I am unsure of the publishing dates, but I believe the novel was published before the play.
In Barrie's novel, Hook's dying words are "Bad form" whereas in the play, his dying words are "Floreat Etona!" ("May Eton flourish"), (and in "Anon: A Play", Hook doesn't appear to have any last words whatsoever). I, being particularly interested in Hook's rather shadowy character and past, wonder why Barrie chose to change the quote in the novel, or vica versa. I suspect it may have something to do with the Davis boys attending Eton, but I'm quite unsure. What do you guys think? Is there any info on this online?
34
Peter Pan / Re: Syfy Journeys to 'Neverland' in Peter Pan sequel...
« on: September 08, 2010, 04:15:20 PM »
Haven't read those...but read up on Wikipedia about Hook. I nearly smacked the computer D:

Delightful. Making a movie that would - I'm quite sure, if I may say so - shame the author.
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Peter Pan / Re: Fox's Peter Pan and the Pirates
« on: September 04, 2010, 08:42:55 PM »
Hoorah! I'll be looking for those within the next few days C:
Thanks!
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Peter Pan / Re: Hook & Jill
« on: September 04, 2010, 06:36:42 PM »
@.@ I guess you're right! Thanks so much for the correction (*scratches off similarity from list*)
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Peter Pan / Re: Hook & Jill
« on: September 04, 2010, 01:54:15 AM »
XDD It is a rather obscure quote (and not a particularly memorable one, at that!)
38
Peter Pan / Re: New Girl who loves Hook!
« on: September 03, 2010, 07:28:56 PM »
I won't deny that it's an excellent movie! That's for sure :D Steven Spielberg is probably the only one who could have truly pulled it off. Although, I must say - if I may - that Hoffman probably wasn't the perfect fit for the role. He is a brilliant, brilliant actor, but he didn't quite pull of the elegant Hook I would have liked to see. He certainly did the paranoid and obsessed very, very well, but not the elegance or grace.
But the movie really is brilliant on an artistic stance. The costuming alone is incredible...but the island as Spielberg imagined it is epically wonderful.
MUSIC! Hoorah! John Williams is an absolute beast of a composer <3 His fanfares are soooo incredible :)
39
Peter Pan / Re: Hook & Jill
« on: September 03, 2010, 07:20:27 PM »
In Chapter 2, when George and Mary are reflecting on the children flying away, George says: "I am responsible for it all. I, George Darling, did it. Mea culpa, mea culpa."
I don't think he says this in the play though...only in the novel :D
40
Peter Pan / Re: Hook & Jill
« on: September 03, 2010, 05:56:22 PM »
Peter Pan-Therein lies the real connection to Mr Darling even if unintentional....they are both representing the status quo. That being said...as you've said to me before in our discussions here at home...sometimes characters take on a life of their own and you have no idea how things developed the way they did. I think the Hook and Mr. Darling parallels are pretty neat even if unintentional...I think it fits. Especially since Wendy doesn't return till the croc has swallowed him up...as if that Pirate in Mr. Darling has been killed and he can act like a loving father with his children. That's how it always hit me.
A fascinating take on the connection between Darling and Hook, one I haven't read before. I've always read the book understanding that there is a connection between Darling and Hook. How couldn't there be? Too many little things are shared between the characters: talking in third person when dejected, a wish to assert dominance (Darling, over his sons/Nana; Hook, over his crew), fear of being looked down upon (Darling, neighbors; Hook, crew again), both having had a 'classical education'.
You do notice a change in Mr. Darling toward the end of the book. He's gained a certain, humility, perhaps...saddened at the loss of his children, he takes to Nana's doghouse. I see a connection between the doghouse and the crocodile, as Mr. Darling states "This is the place for me." and "Full of remorse as ever, dearest! See my punishment: living in a
kennel." But, perhaps I'm taking it too far XD
41
Peter Pan / Re: Fox's Peter Pan and the Pirates
« on: September 03, 2010, 05:40:07 PM »
I've wanted to watch the show for quite some time now...I never saw it as a kid, but it was recommended to me by an avid -Peter Pan- fan I know on DeviantART. I plan on watching some of the episodes before I go off to college :D Thanks for letting us know it's on YouTube!
Would you recommend any particular episodes that focus on Hook? I've heard wonderful things about the show in general, but I'm especially interested in seeing Hook's elegance...a characteristic I don't think is reflected too often in any of the other versions.
42
Peter Pan / Re: Details...
« on: September 01, 2010, 05:37:54 AM »
HOORAH for details!
Hook's hook is on his right arm. From what I understand (and what I read in the Introduction to the play, titled "Dedication to the Five"), Hook is somewhat autobiographical to Barrie. Barrie had, at one point, lost the use of his right hand, no doubt a factor in the writing of his book.
In traditional views, also, anyone who was left handed was thought to be evil.
Hook's eyes are also blue. The symbolism of the color blue is contrary to the characteristics of the character. Blue often represents calmness, purity, understanding, and passiveness, all things that aren't any of Hook's strong points, at least on the surface. Though Barrie may have been simply creating a connection between himself - as the author - and the character, he did, perhaps unknowingly, emphasize the softer of Hook's two personalities: the saddened gentleman who fears his own mortality.
Smee is, in Barrie's play and book, a bosun. It is a common misconception that Smee is the First Mate, mainly because of the attention (as in screen time) he is given in the movies, and his seeming importance to Hook (a relationship that is, however, not emphasized whatsoever in the play or novel). Starkey is actually Hook's First Mate, but because Starkey is a rather minor character, he doesn't receive quite as much press, as it were, and so, Smee is often given the title First Mate.
Poor Starkey. I still love you! XDD

Oh gosh! Being nitpicky is my life :D No worries! When I read Mr. Hart's -Capt. Hook: The Adventures of a Notorious Youth- I was jumping all over the inaccuracies of character and plot.
Hope I answered a few questions!
43
Peter Pan / Re: Screen versions of Peter Pan
« on: September 01, 2010, 05:15:39 AM »
I was a child who grew up with Disney, and though I loved Disney's -Peter Pan- as a kid, I always knew something was dreadfully amiss even at a young age. Hook's character in particular was /extremely/ flimsy in this version, and I recognized that early on. Though I haven't seen the movie for many, many years, I do remember that the story was "fluffy"; Neverland was too friendly - the pirates dim-witted, the savage nature of the island was dulled.
The 2003 live-action version is the only other version I've seen, sadly :( Though I'm a huge fan of Mr. Isaacs, I believe Mr. Hogan didn't let Isaacs reach to his full potential in the role of Hook. We all know Isaacs can be loathsome, vicious, and eloquent (take -The Patriot- for example). I believe that Hogan leaned too far toward his intended audience (children), and didn't allow the true character of Hook to be expressed in the movie. Had he allowed the character to thrive (as brilliant and deep characters do), his movie may have appealed a little more to adults. Rather than trimming and form-fitting the character so the characterizations would appeal to the younger generation, Hogan could very well have let Isaacs be Isaacs, and thus let Hook become Hook.
What's incredibly unfortunate about all the movie versions (from what I've heard and read) is that Hook's character is often "dulled". It is very clear from the book and play that he is an educated man, having attended Eton and Oxford. He is literate, eloquent, witty, and most of all, sensitive. One sees similarities between Hook and Hamlet, even. But what seems to be the misunderstanding to most directors is that -Peter Pan- is just as much a story for children as for adults. Complexity and depth of character appeal to adults. Visual effects and fast-paced plots appeal to children. If directors were to approach the wonderful story of -Peter Pan- with this view, perhaps we'd get a more accurate depiction of Barrie's play and the characters aside.
I'd most certainly like to see a clean, clear-cut take on the story. Yes, please do still give me the fantastical world of Neverland that we all love, but also the savage, dirty, MORTAL side. In all my years of watching Hook's flight from the crocodile, I've never seen the kind of fear I knew the character should feel. Watching Pan, I've never seen the defiant attitude we all know he should show when saying, "To die would be an awfully big adventure!". In movies, if Barrie's characters were treated more like people and less like characters, the story would feel so much more real. That's what all of the versions seem to be missing. That's what directors need to understand: for a movie to come to life - and I mean really come to life - the actors must become the characters. Once this happens, the feelings speak for themselves; the actors are no longer mute - they communicate directly to the audience, and the story comes to life.
44
Peter Pan / Re: New Girl who loves Hook!
« on: August 31, 2010, 06:14:12 AM »
I'm not a huge fan of the movie (too many inaccuracies for me >.>), but I must say that Dustin Hoffman is a brilliant actor. Hook was a radically different role for him, and he did a marvelous job, despite the inaccuracies of character reflected in the screenplay/script.
45
Peter Pan / Re: Peter Pan in red
« on: August 31, 2010, 06:11:11 AM »
I'm not sure about the early costumes, but I do know quite a bit about the symbolism of red.

Red does often represent passion, yes. However, it can also represent courage (hoorah! we all know that theme :D), rage, sacrifice, power, love, vitality, action, confidence, determination, impulse, adventure, ambition, assertiveness, health, life, and death (last three mainly because of its connection to blood). Red harbors a ton of energy, which is reflected in Pan's free, fun-loving spirit. Conversely, red also holds strong emotion, particularly the more impulsive kind, which are also reflected in his somewhat selfish, harsh self.
The color green - which is the color most seem to associate with Pan - actually doesn't appear to match his character quite as well as red. Green is often associated with healing, calm attitudes, renewal, generosity, prosperity, growth (! with Pan?), balance, and contentment...all attributes that don't speak of Pan's character.
I'm not sure at all if Barrie wished for Pan to be dressed in red, but the symbolism of the color alone reflects the character so well, it's hard not to wonder.
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