Tommy and Grizel

[Rebecca]

I've been reading this novel, and I have a myriad of mixed feelings about Tommy Sandys. Sometimes I like him because he seems to be a basically kind, well-intentioned guy; other times, I pity him because he's also helpless (he clearly wants to love Grizel the way she loves him, but simply can't).
But for the most part, I think Tommy is arrogant. He proposes to two women he doesn't romantically love, and in Grizel's case, he seems to do so only to prove how selfless he is. He rescues the drowning boy on a heroic whim and tries to keep his actions a secret, but later he basks in all the praises he receives for it. He also eats up all Elspeth's pity over his broken foot -- the one he purposely broke! And why? Just so he could have Elspeth and Grizel pity him?
I think Tommy's devotion to Elspeth is genuine, but who's to say part of it doesn't seem from a need to have someone flatter and praise his every move, as Elspeth very nearly does throughout the book? She even seems to dislike Grizel solely because Grizel doesn't hero-worship Tommy the way Elspeth does. Perhaps she's the one who spawned his ego in the first place.
Am I being too harsh on Tommy? I really can't make up my mind how I feel about him, and I've never read Sentimental Tommy, so perhaps I don't have a full grasp of his character. Any thoughts on him are welcome.

[andrew]

I much preferred Sentimental Tommy to T&G - it's very funny, and mostly autobiographical (I quote a lot from it in my book) - well worth reading and easy to find - I bet you love it too!

[zigfried]

I am currently reading SENTIMENTAL TOMMY, and I am ejoying it quite a bit (tho the Scottish dialect can sometimes be daunting).  I hope to finsh it soon and will report back when I do.

[Rebecca]

I finished Sentimental Tommy just last week, and I meant to post here while I was reading it, but the book read much more quickly than I had expected -- certainly more quickly than T & G, probably because it didn't have entire chapters with content along the lines of: "I love you." "I love you more." "No, I love you more." I know that makes it sound like I hated T & G, but I didn't, not really. I just found it a little tedious at some parts, but ST kept me turning pages. I still have mixed feelings about Tommy, but I think I understand who he is and why he and Grizel make the choices they do much better now (how Grizel's wish to be a good woman and Jean Myles's prayer that Tommy not be a "magerful man" must have affected their relationship later, and that his adult writing was filled with all the words Miss Ailie had told him to "have no concern with"). All the Scotch was overwhelming at first, but soon I was so used to it that when my roommate asked me where something was while I was reading the book, I replied, "I dinna ken"!

[Charles Frohman]

I know this topic has been posted a very long time ago, but, I may reccommend to zigfried that he/she should read The Little Minister. That's another one with the Scotch dialect. It's my personal favorite of Barrie's, too.

Rebecca, I know what that feels like haha I've been talking to my friends in school in Scotch and they have had no idea what I've been doing. I have two friends from Scotland whom I talk to online, and they edit my Scotch writing - lately, I've been getting a lot better, and they've only found a few errors!

[Rebecca]

In JMB&TLB, there is a copy of the entry Barrie made in his Querist Album when he was a young man. For "Favorite Hero in Fiction," he wrote, "Cooper's 'Pathfinder.'" Here's a little crash-course for folks who have no idea who Pathfinder is (I didn't until a few weeks ago): Natty Bumppo was the hero of a series of five novels -- The Pioneers, The Prairie, The Last of the Mohicans, The Pathfinder, and The Deerslayer -- by James Fenimore Cooper, collectively called "The Leatherstocking Tales." I'm posting all this here because I read The Deerslayer, which comes first in the series chronologically but was the last to be published, for my American Literature class a few weeks ago, and I really think that Natty Bumppo was a big influence on the creation of Tommy Sandys and other Barrie heroes. I highly recommend The Deerslayer, or any of the Leatherstocking Tales, to anyone who wants to understand Barrie's work just a little better.
Oh, and another book I recently read for American Literature was Moby-Dick. I loved it, much to my own surprise, and one reason why -- besides that it was a really good book -- was how much MD reminded me of PP. To me, the similarities were simply astounding. I even got into an argument with my professor over whether Captain Ahab was anything like Captain Hook. Maybe no one can prove that Barrie ever read MD, but I'll eat my hat if anyone can prove he didn't. (Just joking, so don't anyone take me up on that.) If there are any other MD fans reading this, I'd love to here what you think.

[Charles Frohman]

Oh, jeez - Rebecca, this is Meredith haha!

[Rebecca]

I've finally gotten my own copy of The Lost Boys (!!) and even though I've only had time to watch the first few minutes so far, I'm already surprised by some of the references to T&G that it makes. The biggest shock is the simple pronounciation of Grizel's name. Everyone in the film is saying it so it rhymes with drizzle, and I've always said it Gri-ZELLE (accent on the second syllable). I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to reconcile myself to this new pronounciation. I guess I'll add Grizel to the list of Barrie-related words that I can't pronounce, which will probably grow longer as I continue watching the movie. I also think that AB mentioned in his interview that Tommy committed suicide, which was another huge shock. I had thought his death was accidental. I better go reread the end of the book.

It's almost midnight here in Louisiana, I've got a Shakespeare paper due tomorrow, and I'm moving next week and have a ton of packing to do ... but all that will just have to wait, because I can tell right now that I'm going to be up late tonight watching this amazing movie.