Author Topic: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought  (Read 11604 times)

Literary

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When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« on: September 22, 2010, 06:05:20 PM »
Does anyone happen to know offhand if Barrie's obscure publication "When Wendy Grew Up: An Afterthought", and or his essay/dedication to his play "A Dedication to the Five" are in the public domain?

AlexanderDavid

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2010, 07:09:28 PM »
Does anyone happen to know offhand if Barrie's obscure publication "When Wendy Grew Up: An Afterthought", and or his essay/dedication to his play "A Dedication to the Five" are in the public domain?

I'm not sure about the dedication (since the play itself isn't), but "When Wendy Grew Up" appears to be--you can read it on neverpedia.com, the Peter Pan wiki, although you can't read the play proper because it's still under copyright.

TheWendybird

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 04:10:58 AM »
Wait...when Wendy grew up in in public domain ...like..that chapter of the book? But the rest of it is not? Do I have that right? so if someone wanted to film it just as it's own short thing...they could?

AlexanderDavid

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 06:36:43 AM »
Wait...when Wendy grew up in in public domain ...like..that chapter of the book? But the rest of it is not? Do I have that right? so if someone wanted to film it just as it's own short thing...they could?

No, the book is in the public domain.  The play is not.

The above poster is referring to the theatrical version of "When Wendy Grew Up", which predates the version in the book.  The theatrical version is in the public domain, unlike the Peter Pan play proper.

GOSH

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 08:47:32 AM »
Copyright term varies from country to country but the replies to Literary's question have assumed he was only interested in the US, where the play (including its Dedication to the Five) is indeed still in copyright until 2023 because it was first published in 1928 (date of first publication + 95 years).  The status of 'When Wendy Grew Up' (play version) is not so clear cut in the US but as it is rarely - if ever - performed on its own, the question has never arisen. When published in the US as part of the novel, it is considered to be in the public domain.

In the UK (and the rest of Europe apart from Spain), ALL works by JM Barrie are in the public domain. His works are also out of copyright in other English-speaking countries such as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc.

Hope this is helpful. If you have any questions about Peter Pan or its copyright status, feel free to email me at peterpan@gosh.org

Christine

TheWendybird

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 05:50:32 PM »
So if someone wanted to create their own version of the story for film or play etc based off the book they are allowed even in the US because it's in public domain?

JAQ

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 01:32:28 PM »
So if someone wanted to create their own version of the story for film or play etc based off the book they are allowed even in the US because it's in public domain?
Correct.  As long as they use only elements introduced in the novel Peter and Wendy (or LWB/PPiKG), and do not use anything introduced in the 1928 publication of the play (or other adaptations, which are under someone else's copyright), this is legal.

The only exceptions to this are in the few countries whose copyright terms are longer than the EU's: St Vincent and the Grenadines (all of JMB's copyrights expire in 2013), Spain and Colombia (2018), and Mexico (2038!).  So if you speak Spanish and want to produce an unauthorized Pedro Pan y Wendy, you might find the lawful market for it somewhat constrained for a while yet.

TheWendybird

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 09:07:05 AM »
So if someone wanted to create their own version of the story for film or play etc based off the book they are allowed even in the US because it's in public domain?
Correct.  As long as they use only elements introduced in the novel Peter and Wendy (or LWB/PPiKG), and do not use anything introduced in the 1928 publication of the play (or other adaptations, which are under someone else's copyright), this is legal.

The only exceptions to this are in the few countries whose copyright terms are longer than the EU's: St Vincent and the Grenadines (all of JMB's copyrights expire in 2013), Spain and Colombia (2018), and Mexico (2038!).  So if you speak Spanish and want to produce an unauthorized Pedro Pan y Wendy, you might find the lawful market for it somewhat constrained for a while yet.

So this doesn't include the fact that stuff in the book is also in the play..it just means only stuff from the book and nothing that may have come later in the publication of the play?

andrew

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 07:52:24 PM »
The simplest solution to the murkier aspects of the copyright question is to donate a small percentage of any profits (say 10%) to GOSH, regardless of whether the law requires it or not. It's what Barrie would have wanted, after all ...

JAQ

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 04:46:06 PM »
So this doesn't include the fact that stuff in the book is also in the play..it just means only stuff from the book and nothing that may have come later in the publication of the play?
I think you've got it.  For example, the "Don't get any letters" conversation appears in both the 1911 novel and the 1928 published script. That's public domain in the US, because it was in the novel.  But Wendy using a broomstick after she starts getting older and her flying gets shaky does not appear in print until the 1928 publication of the play, so it's an element of the story that is under copyright here.  It's a nitpicky distinction, but that's the law.

JAQ

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 04:48:42 PM »
The simplest solution to the murkier aspects of the copyright question is to donate a small percentage of any profits (say 10%) to GOSH, regardless of whether the law requires it or not. It's what Barrie would have wanted, after all ...
That would settle the ethical question, but not the legal one; GOSH would still have grounds to pursue a copyright infringement suit in the US if they chose.

TheWendybird

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2010, 08:13:48 PM »
Yeah I figured stuff like the broomstick was obviously totally out of the question. And Andrew...definitely...we always felt if something was done and we didn't have to pay royalties we would still want to give money to GOSH.

sameena

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2010, 03:44:09 AM »
thnx.. ws looking fr ths..

GOSH

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2010, 01:14:24 PM »
Thanks for your kind thoughts, Andrew and WendyBird! Even though the hospital no longer has to rely entirely on donations as in Barrie's days since it became part of the National Health System, the income raised by the charity (where Peter Pan royalties and donations go) contributes towards redevelopment, research and new equipment  thus maintaining the hospital's excellence in the care of children.

Thank you to JAQ for his insight regarding the potentially illegal use of the play version of  'When Wendy Grew Up" in film version, but I would say it would be highly unlikely that we take to court anyone for what amounts to a couple of lines... Apart from the fact that funds meant for our patients' care should not be diverted to pay lawyers' fees for such trivia, it would actually be up to Sony Pictures to decide what action to take. Although the copyright belongs to GOSH, film rights have been licensed to Columbia for the duration of the copyright - so it would be their rights that are breached (even in St Vincent and the Grenadines)...

mikey2573

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Re: When Wendy Grew Up: An After Thought
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2010, 05:23:15 PM »
As an example, Mabou Mines did a puppet version of the story which they adapted from the book. It was called PETER AND WENDY and was considered a new stage adaption of the BOOK by Barrie, it was not based on Barrie's play.